Money Talks with Mike DeGroat: Unpacking Finance & Fatherhood

I feel like it's something that we should talk about more openly. So I'll start with this question Why the hell is this so hard to talk? Well, that's an easy question to pick. One thing that I've noticed to be commonly true is money is deeply tied to our values and our history as a person and the way we spend our money or save or invest or whatever we do with it is the embodiment of the things we value the most. When our when our outgo exceeds our income, our upkeep will be our downfall every time. But often when it comes to money, the emotional only led decision is the wrong one. And this has been proven over and over with studies and studies that much of money is counter emotive, counterintuitive. It's counter emotive. What we feel like we should do is the wrong thing. You know, I think another reason that money is challenging is in specifically American setting and culture. We are very bad as a culture at deferred gratification. We want what we want. Now, if you offered an American, hey, would you like a cookie today or two cookies tomorrow, the American just says, it sounds like there's three cookies. Give them all three right now. All right. Sound like you're saying American Society or a bunch of we're. That's what I'm hearing. Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Teevee Show Podcast. My name is Teevee, and today my lovely guest is the one and only Mike de Groat. Say hi to the people Mike. Good to be here. Thanks. Thank you for joining me. We've been working on this podcast for a while. He is a financial advisor. I actually met him over ten years ago, which is crazy at a networking group that has become kind of my networking homebase, established networking, and we'll probably talk about networking as a whole and the value of it and why everyone should be doing some of it, even if you have a job. That's what I've come to conclude. If you have a job and you're not necessarily trying to get a job, it's so good to be out there mingling. However, the topic of today's conversation is a handful, two or three mainly for one. We're definitely going to talk about fatherhood. We I talk a lot about fatherhood, personal development on this podcast because I feel like if you become a better human being, becoming a better father is like automatic because like better human being, better father magic. But the core topic that we wanted to talk about and I wanted to bring him on for is finance. He is a financial advisor and being that money is so important and it is something that is woven into every part of our society and it can make or break some families. Yes, it does. I feel like it's something that we should talk about more openly. So I'll start with this question Why the hell is this so hard to talk to money? Well, that's an easy question to start with. You know, it true it is. Money is so integral to every part of our lives. And I think that this is why I've been running a financial advising practice now for 15 years. You did say you celebrated your 50th anniversary and 50th anniversary just this month. And one thing that I've noticed to be commonly true is money is deeply tied to our values and our history as a person. So one of the questions I often ask clients is what was money like for you growing up? I remember that, yes, you ask me that. I'm like, Ooh, this one. This one's a good question, right? And so asking that question tells me a whole lot about the the perspective people have around money. And I think that's partially where it becomes hard to talk about where we talked in a society where you don't talk about but you don't talk about religion and politics in polite society. You also don't talk about money. And that's not one of the things that said in that. But we don't talk about it much. And I'm actually concerned that that's actually created a society that's not very good at having civil conversations about politics, religion and money. We can't talk about those things. We get angry and fight because we're never supposed to talk about it because we're supposed to. So we do how right. I think those are things that should be talked about, specifically the money one. And I remember my very first day as a financial adviser. I had no idea what I was doing really. I had just begun. And so I had a series of mentors who were helping me learn how to do that. And we were meeting with a potential client. And one of the very first questions that this mentor asked kind of on my behalf of this spiritual client was, So how much money do you make per year? Like what your salary. And I just remember this like gulp moment because it's like you can't I can't ask people this. You can't ask that question. But yeah, I would weep. And then it instantly clicked. It's like, I just started a career as a financial. I have to ask this question. This is normal, This just feels weird and it is still feel, feel very weird. So that leads me to this. Fine. We're not supposed to talk about it. Well. Well, we should. Yeah, we haven't. I was raised that way. Sure, but why not in the family? Like, why not inside of the family? Maybe you don't talk about it. You don't want to be the show off. You don't want to feel poor. You don't want to feel like you're. You're just showing your money off with stuff in money and whatnot. But why not in the family since it is so important? Well, that's interesting, because often I find when I asked that question, what was money like for you growing up? One of the elements of that is how much was it talked about in your family when you were young? And this is anecdotal. This is just a sample size of my experience and client base. But what I have seen is those families, those are now adults who when they were kids, it was talked about in their family, regardless of the situation, but it simply was something that was on the table without shame or stigma. Those people generally are what I found to be more financially successful than those where it wasn't talked about, those where it was. And that's not talked about at all. And Mom and Dad handled it, or dad or mom exclusively handled all the finances. They don't do as well generally because they haven't. There's so much about money that is experiential. And we learn by doing not just thinking about it like you can read a textbook and and a lot of financial planning work is truly just basic math like addition and subtraction and multiply divide by 12. Like that's pretty much all of the basic math, but that's really still hard to enact in life because it's so tied to our core values, our emotions, our past experience. I think it's great and should be talked about in families, but it often still isn't. You know, it's and it's unfortunate because it is such a a thread that is goes across multiple contexts over our life. You want to get married, you want to have a family, you want to have a home, you want to like you want to go to college, right? You want to get an education and start a business. You want to retire eventually. You want to care for aging parents. Like all of those things take money and to not talk about it seems seem silly. But given where we're at before, it is what it is. You asked me that question in the past. Yeah, and I remember hearing that and thinking to myself it was we never talked about it. Well, we never talked about money. Now I can hear the arguments about money. yes. So there were conversations, but you were not invited to participate in those conversations, correct? Yeah. And the conversations were more arguments and they were actually, you know, hey, honey, how about the bills or Hey, don't do that, Don't do this. And I took some classes on money because I realized that this was a major problem. And I remember taking a workshop, and up until then, I didn't realize that you have beliefs around money either. Believe that there's you can get it and there's a lot of it. You can manage it or no, you can't talk about it, you can't manage it, and you're just always going to be broke and you're going to be always chasing. You're running in the rat race and then learning that the money beliefs. Obviously, like many other beliefs, we inherit, we we adopt from our parents. And sure enough, as I started to analyze my own financials and my own spending habits, I couldn't help but realize that I was a nice little hybrid of both my parents. I'd go through spurts where I'd say, That's my mom. She was a saver. She was a penny pincher. She had to be she was the one that got us through some tough times. And then there's my father. He's like, Let's just get it. Let's go. Let's you know, I work hard for a reason. Like, like I just spend it. So I'd go through those various moments and at the end of the day, I was broke because of the conflicting beliefs, I believe. Sure. But realizing that there is beliefs around money and that unless you intentionally start thinking about it, you're you're going to be chasing your tail perpetually. You know, I think another reason that money is challenging is in specifically American setting and culture. We are very bad as a culture at deferred gratification. We want what we want. Now, if you offered an American, hey, would you like a cookie today or two cookies tomorrow, the American just sounds like there's three cookies. Give them all three right now. All right. I just want like, sounds like we're talking about three cookies. Just give them all to me right now. Sound like you're saying American Society are a bunch of cookies. We're hearing. We're just really impatient, Right? We've got like apps now where you can order stuff to be delivered to you right away, sometimes like 8 hours, sometimes like if you're at the park and you're like, I forgot a Frisbee, you can order on an app and it just shows up while you're still there at a picnic, right? We're just very now focused. Have you done that? Maybe that seems so specific, but that's fantastic day ever. So it's just we're just very like. And the problem with that is that money is kind of like wine or cheese. It is not worth something real until it has had time to age and mature and grow. And so money that is invest is not invested, doesn't have a future. And the future takes a while to get here. Get here. So we're just often just very impatient and we're very focused on, you know, very focused on this week, maybe this month, maybe the next. Most Americans do not have enough money to cover a gap in employment for a time. Right. There's not a cash reserve that they've built into their lives. And that's really the very basic starting place with good financial planning. I heard that. And when because of that, it's like, that is me. So when I did get to a point where I like, if I get completely fired from every client, I can survive for three months. Yeah. At my current pace, that was my first indication to internally, like I'm in a I'm in a better place. I'm not in the best. I'm in a better place. I've succeeded to some extent because five years ago that I am part of that statistic is sure. Unfortunate statistic is I just wasn't making enough and I was spending too much. That's always the problem's that's not unique to you. When our when our outgo exceeds our income, our upkeep will be our downfall every time. Damn, that's a quotable rather it is quotable. I said that before. I have said it before, but it's not original to me. It just flows. So what? You said something that reminded me of this thing. I don't know if it's so much a quote, but Ray Dalio. Yeah, he has a video on economics that yes, I have seen that video just like 15 or 20 minutes. Yes. And he breaks it down the economics and money and the influx influx of money. And it was beautifully illustrated as well. And I just and also narrate it. And one of the things he said is that when you take on credit, when you take on that kind of when you take on credit, you're essentially saying my future self will pay for this plus a little more plus interest rate. So if you do that too much, then your future self might cuss you out. Now he does that. I was thinking like your you're hoping a lot on your future self. Yeah so like any if you take way too much debt on without really having a clue as to what you're doing now your future self is screwed and I mean, I took on some debt in my life, but at the same time I knew that I was doing things. It was an investment. It definitely was an investment. However, that having that mindset of my future self, having to pay for this to your point of the money doesn't isn't worth it isn't worth anything until the future. Yeah, right. Is that future is self is paying with the with what may or may not be more or less money than you're bringing in today. Something and something to think about. And I had to share that video with my daughters. One of my big goals, besides just educating myself, is obviously teaching the girls as soon as I could about money because I need them to have that awareness and intelligence around money as early as possible, as soon as they can start adding basic math addition, subtraction, division and dividing for 12. And they can do that in second and third grade. So is important for me that I started sharing anything that I came across. And that video was was so well explained. I think it's one of those like, explain it like a fifth grader. Yeah that well done Yeah it's and it looks at because I've seen the video does a great jobs too of looking at the specifically the American economics system and how it works at a big macro level. And there's a lot of value in that too because you're we're all a piece of that individually. But then also looking at and then realizing how do we manage money for ourselves, for our family, for our household. But personally, that's a it's a big question that is deeply rooted with our within our values. It's kind of like an iceberg, right? So most of our motivations around money are below the surface and things people can't see. And how we spend our money is the tip of the iceberg. That's the action people can see, Right? And so you see someone else spend their money and it's can be like, wow, why would they spend their money that way? Or why would they choose to save their money when they could have this? Right now, all of those things may look odd to you because you're filtering it through your set of values and motivations and purposes that are under the surface, but you can't see what's under their surface. You just see the actions on top. Got it. That's that's a fantastic illustration. I like that. I had a question or I wanted to ask you about something that you said to me in the past, and that says something about money as it relates to values. Yeah, right. I'm trying to think of how you worded it, and maybe you can remember the way we spend our money is is a true reflection of our values. Like the manifestation of our values. Yes. Can you explain that to me and to the audience? Yes. That's what that's what happens when we put our money down on something. We're saying this is something that I value. I value this many dollars worth. Money is actually a measure of value. It's an easy, exchangeable one because I suspect in your business you don't take payments in chickens or tomatoes. Right? Right, right. Yeah. So we have an exchangeable form of value and the way we spend our money or save or invest or whatever we do with it is the embodiment of the things we value the most. So when somebody says, Hey, I really care about family, family is the number one thing, but they don't spend any of their time or money with that with or on their family, that it's actually just a thing they don't actually believe. Right? You can see what people truly value by where they where their money actually flows. And that's pretty interest. So you think, okay, you get a budget worksheet or an expense statement worksheet, which I get often from my clients, like here's where their money's flowing. I can quickly see behind the numbers their philosophy on what things are important to them. Right. And that's and it's not just necessarily, clearly a boat is important to them. No, no, no. It's not that. It's there's something about having a boat. Maybe it's status, maybe it's relaxation. Maybe it is time with family. And that's the whole family activity. Right. But there's that's what they're spending their money on, therefore. Right. And so those who are good savers and are really aggressively saving for the future, they are people who have a set of values of being willing to defer gratification, which I think is a virtue. And then they're there. There's certain things they care about, but they also want to be able to care about them in the future. And so that's why they that's why they save to me when I heard that, like, whoa, yeah, of course, duh. But I had never heard it wrapped in that context. That makes perfect sense because you work, you put in all these hours to generate this income, this revenue, and you say, Hey, I value my family, but you take a solo trip to, I don't know, Spain and leave the kids at home like, yeah, you know, and that's a far out example. I just wanted to really drive across the the the picture of then it's really not you're saying one thing but doing another. So money will reflect where you spend your money or if it reflects truly what you value. Even if you think I value something else, you can just look at your money go, I see what I. I see what I see what I see today. Yes. Awesome. Awesome. What is your number one book recommendation when it comes to people trying to really start to become more aware of money? Because this I think, at surface level was like, well, money is money. You work for it, you spend it. What's the big deal? Like? There's nothing else to really to know. And you add it and you subtract it. No, there's so much like there's so much more. So please do share. Yeah. My number one book recommendation has changed over time and I get the newest like, this is the one I really like right now. Right now I'm a big fan of a book by Morgan Housel. It's called The Psychology of Money, and it's a few years out now, but it's pretty recent and it is excellent from my perspective, because one of the things I'm really focused on with money is the behavior behind it, the psychology, the way you think about it. Often I'm talking with my clients and I feel kind of more like a a coach or a behavioral therapist, maybe even like my goal is to help them behave well around money, because that's far more important than if I find the best investment that maybe gets a 1% higher return. Yes, that will impact their life. And yes, that is good. But if I can just help them behave slightly differently or avoid a behavioral mistake or take advantage of an opportunity that will move the needle for them way, way more than a slightly higher return in this investment versus that. Because what we do with our money is a life long thing and it has a big impact. So Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel It's not really an advice book specifically saying, Hey, here's how you should do your money and your life. But he does talk pretty high level about how money works and how we think about it, and he gives some pretty interesting examples. So Mike here is actually my daughter's mentor and which is a beautiful thing. Thank you for that. For that gift. Yes. During her final semester of high school, we spent a lot of time together, which was wonderful. It was really neat. And she she came to me. She's like, Dang, Mike recommended that I read this book and she handed it to me like, I love this book. I had read it a year or two before and it really and I feel like I have a decent understanding of money, but it opened up my eyes to a handful of other things. And like you said, it's just concept as a psychological piece because ultimately we're all psychological. It's all in our brain. Yes, this through the stories is our beliefs are all stories in our head. But understanding it and the way he wrote is really simple to understand. Very simple comprehend. Yep. One of the things that that I think he started with this at the beginning that that really opened my eyes up is the way you see money, spend money, invest money. And it's very experiential is what you may have gone through in life. Maybe the way a person in the seventies raised in Mexico, my parents or maybe in sixties, raised in Mexico, in that culture, during that economy will be totally different than that same person being raised there now. Sure. Yes. So money's very culturally tied. We learn a lot of it from a culture of our family, but our family is influenced by the culture around them. Right. So, for example, here in the in the U.S., the baby boomer generation generally speaking. Right. This is going to be generalized. But generally speaking, baby boomers responded to their parents generation who went their parents went through the well, couple of world wars and the Depression. So their parents were generally very tight with money, Like I remember my grandfather, who was of that generation washing aluminum foil. So it could be reused. Right. And he would use like the the deli meat containers from the store. He would reuse those as his Tupperware. Right. And so and they'd use the clothesline instead of the dryer if it was a sunny day, those kinds of things, even though they had plenty of money. And that's really typical of the greatest generation, those who went through the Depression in response to that, the baby boomers kind of went the pendulum very much the other way. Generally speaking, baby boomers have been very spend money on things. And so we saw a significant boom in larger houses and multiple cars and collections of stuff and things. And having a vacation home and having stuff was very prioritized. And so now the next generation for them is the millennial generation mostly. And they're just skipped me. I know, but I get it. It's the silent generation, right? Which is, you know, that's the hope. But yeah, here we are talking, But I know what you mean. Yes, I'm giving you a hard right. So my size right then and now. Actually, the biggest financially influential generation in the U.S. is the millennial generation. Right? So you're kind of get skipped altogether and what's gotten it to heck. So the the millennial generation largely has said no money should be spent on experiences, education, knowledge, travel, events, outings. And so you can see this in the phenomenon of the US Mall. This is my my opinion. But malls didn't really exist until baby boomers. Baby boomers started creating these malls. It was like the idea of like, what if instead of having to go to all these different stores, you put them all together, all together, We have them all here, and then we're going to we're going to shove in to the corner a food court because you're going to be there shopping so long, you're going to get tired and hungry. So we're going to put in this really cramped space where you can come and get a bunch of foods that you can refuel to keep shopping. And there's some video games and everything for your kids. Go, let's get a bunch of quarters. Right. Okay. And so then that is basically dying. If you look at malls in America, most of them are closed and gone. There are a few that are making it, and the ones that have made it have made the generational shift and gone from, it's not about baby boomers wanting to buy stuff now. It's about millennials wanting to have experiences. So the balls that are still around have converted from instead of being hundreds of stores and a little bit of bitty food court, now they are bunches of restaurants like full on restaurants and a movie theater and maybe laser tag or something like that, like an outdoor, a little park, even an outdoor park or an art exhibit or an indoor or a courtyard. The square. Yeah, right. And we'll also have a few stores, but it's going to be like eight stores and 12 restaurants and a movie theater. It's an experience and it's an experience. And so those are the ones that are surviving. So here in Dallas, where we are, they have been tearing down malls. There's a few that they're not tearing down. And most of the ones they aren't tearing down are having this more experiential approach. It's just an example of how money flows with generation and culture and values. So up until then, I didn't really get that. I didn't I thought money is money. You invest, you spend whatever, whatever, but that obviously I can look at my own family. I look at my parents. They were raised in the same generation, but my mother was the more responsible one. And to this day she saves, she saves. She's tucked everything away in the pillows. And because she had to and she had four kids. Yeah. Were immigrants were were poor. And as a study, you know, then my father was spending everything. So she's hiding. She like she I walk in some time to my mom. You know, you have $100. You're like, what the heck is it? But it was like tucked away and it was the weirdest thing. And then trying to figure out, like, why I don't. And that makes no sense to me, like, put it in the bank. And then there's also the mistrust of the banks because who knows what happened during that time. And so just the idea that every person is like has their own world of beliefs around just the world, frankly, in life. But as it as it relates to money and why it is so hard to get them to understand some concepts because like, no, this is the way I've always I watched the illusion when I was a kid. I did not watch the aluminum. Yes. And we also suffer from a basically a bias of what's working, must continue to work. And so the downside here is you're like, well, this has worked for me for 40 years. Great. But there's a big financial challenge that almost everyone will face. And it's retirement, right? And retirement is optional on one hand. Yes. No hint? No. And I'm a big believer that everyone needs to save for the minimum level of the non optional retirement, which is at some point you're no longer able to effectively work physical age, etc. is going to make it where you just can't do what you did before. And if you only keep doing what's always worked for you, there may be a time where, now I have to retire. I have clients who have retired not by choice, but just they can't do it anymore. And you've got to have that minimum foundation set in and then a lot of people also have goals like, I want to retire early. I want to retire ahead of my peers. Right? That's even more of a challenge, that's more aggressive, that takes more energy and effort and planning and risk and and potentially risk. Right. I would imagine. And so just because something is like, well, this has worked for me for 20 years, okay, But the time between seven and 90 is is 20 years. And if you retire at 65, it's now 25 years. And if you want to live beyond it, you might live you live beyond that. 30 years of planning to have enough income. You have to save up enough assets to have enough income during that time. That is a very complicated, tall order with lots of moving parts and taxes and investments, and it just is a lot of pieces. And so the concern is, well, this has worked for me so far, but no one, you've haven't you've never tried being retired before. How about adapting a little bit your philosophy, your approach, like take some advice. Let me advise you, what do you feel is the or not the most? But what what are some of the challenges when advising people? What do you run into? Often some of the big things that we're trying to work on are some of the challenges really do boil down to behavior. So my my goal is to help people make good choices with their money regularly. And it's not like I'm a magician who comes in and waves a wand and everything instantly is like way better, right? It's like you would walk in with a wizard hat. Hello? It's it's a slow progress thing, right? And so what happens typically when I when I'm working with a client and they're new, there's a flurry of activity to get everything set up, get everything organized, get as many things automated as he possibly can for their benefit so that it just happens regularly. They're saving regularly. They don't think about it because if they think about it, they might decide not to do it. If they don't think about it, it just continues to happen, right? So we get everything all set up and then we enter what I consider like the kind of the plow horse mode, right where we want the we just we need to make a straight row and plow a straight row. And so we need the blinders on so we don't get distracted and we need to just look at the horizon that's five, ten years away or more and just make a straight. And then so some clients go, my, we did so much at the beginning and now we're just kind of sitting here like, Yes, I see looks, this is you was born, this, this is where it gets boring. Yeah, right. And then there are punctuated moments of flurries of activity. When you decide to quit, your corporate job is start your own business. That's a big life moment. You get married or divorced. Those are big life moments around money. Kids go to college. It's a big one. You decide to retire and you pull the trigger on retirement. Those are big moments where everything in your life is kind of or you have a kid, right? I did that recently. Right? So. So yeah. So all those all those things can be big moments. And in the in betweens, it's about having good habits that you're just continuing to repeat over and over. And the more you can automate it, the less you have to like, you don't have to be the one controlling it every month to make sure you're making the right choices. I imagine that if you have someone else do it, it becomes a little less emotional or the emotional component has to be there because we're emotional creatures. But yeah, because you're you're handing it over to someone you more. They're trying to Yes. They plow that lane, right. Because otherwise, for myself, if I don't have someone else do it, I'm probably not. And then on top of that, I don't have the time to research and stay on top of the market. The idea of picking stocks and investments and tax strategies is like over the top to me. Like, I mean, it's a full time job for me. So like, yeah, right. I get it. I'm a big believer that people should have a I mean, I get it. I'm biased here, but I'm a big believer that people should have a financial advisor, somebody who's helping them do planning work for several reasons. And one of them is because as much as they may care about you, they are emotionally distant, disconnected from your money, and they can give you emotional. Much like a therapist. Yes, they can get their third party. Yes. And that can be helpful. Right. So when you when they say, hey, you should save $100 a month, $1,000 a month, $300 a month into this type of account, they're looking at it very differently, more clinically than you are when you're like, yes, but if I put if I put $300 there every month, I can't. You're thinking about what you can't have or what you can't do, right? Club membership. Yeah. New club. Right. And that's emotionally valuable to you. Right. And so they're they're more disconnected. And so having a third party that can speak into the finances of your life is super help. I think everybody should have that because they are disconnected. And that allows them to see clearly because often and this is really unfortunate, but often when it comes to money, the emotionally led decision is is the wrong one. And this has been proven over and over with studies and studies that much of money is counter emotive. It's not counterintuitive. It's counter emotive. Like that's what we feel like we should do is the wrong thing because feelings don't. I have this kind of belief like feelings are real and they matter. But this type of thing, like if you feel like you're losing too much money, you might pull before like mathematic, ethically speaking or historically speaking. Because historically speaking, the stock market has increased for the last, who knows, like through the entire history. Yes, right. Yes. But if you're in a dip and you're losing your butt off in that moment, it feels horrible. It does. So you want to pull emotionally because it's horrible. And I think back to the book, he says something like those ups and downs. Yes, those are the taxes you're paying to play in the game, though. That's the the the emotional tax. Yes. Yes. Emotional taxing. That's a part of the game. It is. And you have to calculate that in you're going to have downs. You're going to have some ups if you play in the game long enough and you can have some downs. So taking that in, I love the way he said is it it's a tax. It's the tax of playing this game and trying to build wealth through the stock market. I wanted to bring this up because somebody else has shared this. And now that I I'm invested and doing things more in the stock market, they describe the stock market essentially and invest in the stock market as a whole as just this big emotional machine, because at the end of the day, everyone's most people are making emotional decisions. And today, I don't know if someone might tweet about something which will emotionally impact, you know, 100,000, 200,000 people that may follow that particular I'm thinking of. Yes. I'm trying to think of well, there was a there was a specific investment strategy that was started a few years back. There was a very influential American who would occasionally tweet and sometimes mention companies in tweets. Yes. And so there was a fund that was created specifically to just watch those tweets and buy things that the that were praised in the tweet and sell things that were said. You know, this probably won't do well. And all they were playing on basically was not necessarily whether the tweets were accurate, but because it didn't matter, because it was the impact. If other people believed the tweets were accurate and then they went to the marketplace and bought or sold based on those tweets, it would move the prices of those things. And so there was a fund set up that for a while was simply tracking, not doing all the complicated fund analysis that is normally done, but just tracking what are the tweets and buying or selling based on those as fast as possible to try to be ahead of the mass that might be following along. Right. Very interesting idea because like that is a purely emotionally based or influence based, non-conscious quantitative right. There's no analytics going on. And that was very interesting idea. Wow. But given that there is going to be say that individual has a million followers. Yeah, that seem to think that he's a credible individual in this investment space. Yes, he influences 100,000 trades. I Mettler 10,000. Heck, I'm sure the it's going to influence a bunch of other people's emotional states and get them to aspire. So that is. But knowing that checks me Yeah, knowing that like just don't even think about it. Don't even look. Generally speaking, the hot, the hot trade, the exciting thing. Yeah. By the time the by the time you hear about it, right. By the time somebody who's not engaged daily with the markets, by the time that something you know, you hear, I just heard that X, y, z stock is like the coolest thing. Most of the time it's too late. By the time you hear about it, you're going to be buying it from people who have been with it for a while, who knew about it before it was popular. They've now made a bunch of money and they're willing to sell it to you for the price that you think it's now worth so they can get out and make their money. Right now, that's not to be pessimistic and that's not always the case. But generally speaking, I know this is how I feel. Generally when a client comes into my office and says, Hey, I just heard about this thing, can you tell me about it? Even if I've never heard about this thing, I already know it's probably running its course and it's on the end of its life, right? Or at least for this cycle, not the beginning. I said, Good. No, guys, you got to pay attention. If you read it in a blog post, if you saw it on CNBC. Is what's interesting about the media is that more than one of them is going to pick it up. So chances are CNBC and whoever else you're getting your information from, it's going to be, well, these massive, massive investment firms that trade billions or trillions of dollars. They've got super fast systems, computers, analysts because they're going to make a trade of millions or billions of dollars in fractions of a second. In fact, for a while, this is a fascinating piece of history to tell. Okay. So the New York Stock Exchange became increasingly digitized and trades still happen on the floor. They used to all happen on the floor. The people that it was angry around and you see them. I was wondering about this because I've watched billions. Yeah. And yeah, like how do they do it? Like they there's anybody there anymore, Right? So most of the trades used to I mean, all the trades used to happen in person that way. Now it's a very small fraction is still happening that way. Most it's just computer servers. Okay so this is a little bit technical, but the speed of data through a wire line is capped, The speed is influenced by how long the cord is so big. Trading firms were spending lots of money to be able to get their server banks closer to the New York Stock Exchange Server hub. Right, Because if they were closer, they could have a millisecond advantage on others because their server is closer and the way the New York Stock Exchange computer systems were built originally, they didn't they didn't round off time. Time was just like fractions of a second would go infinitely. So if you're a millionth of a second faster than somebody else, you get the trade. So companies were putting tremendous effort into having their servers closer. So now with the New York Stock Exchange, does is they actually brought all servers in-house. And so you basically rent server space and all servers in the in the New York Stock Exchange room have the same length of cable connecting them to the main mainframe regardless of how close they physically are. So everybody has like a 200 foot cable. Some of them are like three feet away from it and they've got 200 feet just piled up there. So their air. So there's no now advantage by being a millisecond of data time closer. And those are the guys that we're competing with. It's just regular, right? So that means like if you're driving on your car and you hear something on the radio that this could be a really cool investment, like, right, I'll think about it. And you think about on the rest of your drive, you get home, you look it up and you Google it and go, Yeah, okay, I'll do that. And you buy that, that's fine. But you're just you're nowhere near on the real time data that matters for these big, massive traders. You're just not going to be able to beat them at that. Wow. Thank you for that. We just geeked out and I love yeah, that went really, really big. But I think it's necessary to just check each check ourselves if you if you decide to jump in the game, which I think we all should, to really have our money start working for us, even small scale. But I wanted to transition to mentorship. We touched on this earlier and you mentioned my daughter and I can't thank you enough. She loved hanging out with you. She loved the conversations. She tends to be on the geeky side as well. So it went really well. What was your impression? How did how did that go? It was it was wonderful. I have a heart for mentoring high school, college aged students and people. So she reached out and said, Hey, would you would you consider mentoring me? I want to learn more about the world of finance and learn more about personal finance. I might want to be a financial advisor someday. Could we spend time together? And so we set up a process where we were meeting pretty much once a week at my office and talking through some of these concepts. She was also getting to see like, what does a day in the life of an actual financial advisor look like? It's not what it looks like maybe in the movies. And so what is it really like kind people throughout? Right? We don't do that. I do. I don't do that. Yeah, you're no fun. So we get to spend a bunch of time together for that whole semester. And it was it was phenomenal one because and you know this already and she knows this too, but your daughter is pretty special. She's extremely intelligent. She's come through many things that has given her a lot of maturity. And so it was just phenomenal to get to spend time with her. But also I enjoyed getting to see how the next generation learning like what an advisor of the future will be thinking about and how they'll be advising clients. And so that's that was excellent. And I, I enjoyed the mentorship process with her so much that I went to the teacher of her program. She told me I was hoping you could. Yeah. So after after finishing because she's, you know, graduate in high school and then she's now off in college, you know, how do I do? So I told the teacher has a, Hey, if you have anybody else, because that mentorship program is part of the curriculum. They do it from time to time. So I said, if you have anybody else that specifically interested in finance, I just keep my name. I'd love to consider being a mentor. Again, I think your daughter maybe spoiled me on like how this how good it can be. I don't know if it'll always be that. I don't know. But I like. I really enjoyed the opportunity spirit. I appreciate it. I feel like I've done a decent job of giving her enough information around it. But in the finance, on the financial side and knowing the intricacies and I can speak on that and obviously is also a great so thank you. She she, she did make a good grade. I enjoyed when you gave her the book. I pulled my my Kindle out and I started rereading it because I wanted to be able to talk about those concepts again. Yeah, I can't help but feel that no matter how it how it works out, I feel like she will stay in the financial space, just having that information further ingrained like so as she starts to become it. She is an adult now. As she starts to mature, build a family, find a job, pick a career, find a city to live in. I think she says she's definitely moving back to Dallas at the moment. Great plan. You know, things change. I told her that many times. I was like, Well, not many times, but enough times. Like, hey, if if you decide you don't want to do finance, that's okay. But you can break your heart. You know, it's like that's fine because things change for especially at that age, right in college, like you learn a lot of things. You go, wow, I really like I like this more than I thought I would. But just the idea mentorship as a whole is relatively new to me. It's not something that I remember hearing about at all when I was a kid. I didn't start hearing about it till I started getting into training trainings and learning different things around what is a home buying, flipping and getting to marketing. It's like it's actually a service. People buy mentorship, but the idea of mentorship as it's I think, initially conceptualized, it's it's the idea of someone advising someone coaching, essentially. Right. And I heard a story recently that really it was around. Give me a moment. This guy was talking about Jay-Z, and Jay-Z was a part of a board and trying to make an impact in the inner city. And the board was trying to come up with programs to help people kind of like just the certain types of programs that were going to help, but ultimately kind of like watching people like, hey, we're going to have a program to watch. You to monitor them, to make sure that they're doing well. And something that he said and this just happened last week, he challenged him and said very few people get better by being watched. What we need more is mentorship, mentoring programs that are set up to actually have them speak to someone that is in their space that they want to get into. That may look like. And it's something that apparently based on the story that this individual shared, I can't think of the name right now really rocked to me like, wow, we never thought about it in that framework. And I think it's it's something that's overlooked. We I'm trying to do a better job. I'll bring on people that are interested in what I do or just interested even in fatherhood. They're like, how did you how were you able to raise such great kids? I'm like, Yeah, that's not rocket science, but I'll be happy to talk. You people don't want to do marketing if they're younger. Now, if you're older, you're going to pay me. That's enough. But a younger trying to really like I'm open to those types of things because I don't think there's enough of that, especially in the inner city, in the in in the hood where I grew up. So the idea is something that I think we need to push further along. And I just can't help but feel grateful that you took a time out of your day. Well, I wouldn't have made it to year one, my first year anniversary as a financial advisor if I hadn't had people who were mentoring me and helping show me the ropes. I would have never made it. Want what mentorship is important to me because I wouldn't have made it through my first year as a financial advisor without having somebody who was mentoring me. And I actually had a couple of people, but some stand out specifically in my mind that helped me learn the ropes of the career, learn the ropes of the industry, get connected with Dallas. Because I actually moved to Dallas, I didn't know anybody. It wasn't probably very smart. I started my career in 2008, which if you remember market history, that was a real bad time. I started my business in 2000. Okay, so we're not very smart. So I decided to as an eight, I'm going to be a financial advisor. So I started in October of 2008, which was the like the weeks basically everything fell apart and I moved to a city that I didn't know anybody in and said, I'm going to, I'm going to. So, you know, if I knew now what I knew then, I wouldn't have done it because it was dumb. But I didn't know it was dumb and that it was stupid. So I just did it anyway. And I'm kind of like, Yeah, it worked. I'm glad it did. But I'm very thankful for the mentorship that I had to make that happen. That's where a lot of the credit is due. And so I am intentional as a person to to mentor others. So your daughter is an example, but I'm always trying to have somebody that I'm mentoring or helping develop along. That's important to me. Thank you for that. It means it means the world to me. Well, I want to live in a better future. And a better future is built by better people. So I can't I can send them on a hit, like I can help build world changers so that I get to live in a world that they've built. Yeah, right. I like what you said, though, around I like what the future holds like and that was a great compliment, not just for her, but I felt I couldn't help but feel a little of that compliment. Like, yeah, she's, she's an indication of what's possible in the future. And that generation, like if we have more people thinking like that, these children, then maybe this will be okay. It's going to be great. It's going to be okay. Yeah, right. Question What got you into being a financial advisor? What was the impetus behind that? Okay, so led with that. But like, wait, I didn't ask you that. Yeah. So here's, here's my y little bit of my story too. I grew up as a missionary kid. My parents are full card carrying support, raising missionaries overseas. So I actually spent some time. Yeah, I actually spent some time growing up overseas. And so that really infused me with the heart of a social worker. But money and numbers have always made sense to me. Yeah, I was hard to beat as a kid at Monopoly. And so I've always had kind of the mind of an entrepreneur. And so I was looking for a career choice. I really wanted something that would allow me to use the heart of a social worker with the mind of an entrepreneur. And our culture says those things are kind of at odds with each other, right? Like you can be. You can be like my mother Theresa if you want. Or you can be, you can be like a like Elon Musk, but you can't like there's not a good fit of both of those in one person. And I wanted to try to figure out a good way to combine those. And so for me, financial planning work has solved that because it allows me to use a gifts and talent of working with money and numbers and the math side of that to make a difference and help in people's lives. And so that's why I do what I do. And that's kind of what led me in to that. So I had a in college, I studied business specifically, but I was also very involved in social programs and ministry stuff at all. So I just always been trying to synthesize those things together in life. It's been a lifelong quest of trying to put those things together and financial planning helps. How would you feel you've done that like now, Was it 13 for 15 years? Yeah. And blending those two, I feel like I made some mistakes, some on the way, right? I feel like not all of the stories are success stories that I'm like, I guess that's how it should always be. But I feel like in a lot of ways I've made some of those impacts and I'm really excited about that. So I feel like it is it is working. I had someone recently mentioned to me that I'm very involved in the community and they said they noticed that and they're thankful that and a good that's something I've been quietly ish working toward. And so I feel like I've achieved that based on their compliment. A metro at East Dallas Networking. Yes. So I can attest to that. Any time that there is an issue or a group and you're a member of a couple of the nonprofits that you help, you literally help. And I believe you're like one of the best speakers. So you have a great gift of speaking. And the you actually to me are one of the best at doing your 62nd commercial, getting concise, getting it to the point, still having a good call to action. So that edited it, edited them like, wow, but well, I try really hard on those. Thank you. You do like I've never seen you completely flub it. you didn't. You haven't been there though, okay. You've been there nine times that. Okay. But every time you you'll stand up and like, Hey, by the way, there's this thing going on. Consider donating. There's this, there's that, and. And you're driving it. You're not just talking, but you're also a driver behind it. So to that spirit of yours, the giving and the social community work, you're fantastic about that. And you're you and Jonathan are, to me, the best at it and the ones that we're most driven. And it's evident. And I think because you are charismatic individuals, people would also like, of course. Yeah, let's go. You have enough people that would do it that you'd pull a great amount of people to actually donate time, donate money, don't show up, whatever. So let me ask you this question that I've been thinking about starting a networking group. Yes. What are your thoughts on it? let's go. Okay. So here's the idea. And I've ever get the name for it. I don't know. Maybe it exists already, but the idea is it's a once a month networking group called Net Serving, where people get together and do a service project and they get to network shoulder to shoulder while they're doing a service project once a month in the community. I just don't know if I have the time to organize that right now, but I've been thinking about this for years. Do you think that idea would work Where you come, you're going to do a service project for one or 2 hours, maybe three, but you're going be shoulder to shoulder with people that you are they collaborating with each other on this kind of just like a bunch of business owners coming to a maybe like like the White Center of Hope and doing a volunteer project there or helping plan Thanksgiving meals to go out into the community or doing a clean up day project because I've done some of those before, never like repetitively, but I've done a few. And there's always an interesting element of networking that happens there beyond just the Who are you? What do you do? And here's why you should hire me. Yeah, you do. You get to learn, really know who they are and what they represent. Like you're spending your time investing your time. Yes, maybe not money, but time for this project, for this mission, for this nonprofit. It says a lot about an individual. Yes. So anyway, I've been thinking about I just don't know if I have the time and energy to put something else. Well, I think it has legs because you're not the only one. Good. Sure you should do it. is that what you're doing? But I know you can find people is going to be a challenge. I'm sure. But at the same time, you have enough of a network and people that have connected with you over the last 15 years, you know, I've known you for probably 12. I figured. Yeah, I think that's about right. Ten ish. 2011. Yeah, I think that's right. But you have so many people that I, I can't imagine. It's easy for me to imagine a situation where you can have a dozen people show up. Yeah. All right. At first something. Yes, but no, I'll pass on the leadership role. Right? Yeah. That was an interesting pitch with good leadership. I thought maybe if I have you on on my exam camera, you have to. Sorry. I hear you guys. I don't have time for a lot of stuff. Yeah, I understand. I want to say congratulations. Thank you. You're a father. I am. I am. So let's segway into that. And since we do talk a lot about parenting, to me, money is a part of parenting, like, as I said earlier. So that's why it's taken me a while to get here, because it's like this information is necessary for everyone, but especially if you're a father or mother or a parent of any sort, starting to take the steps towards educating yourself so you can educate your kids. So congratulations. Thank you. How is he doing? He's doing good. He was born, as you know, six weeks early. Kind of a surprise arrival. Yes, It was also a surprise arrival while the wife was my wife was out of town, so she was traveling, approved travel. This was very relaxing at a resort in Florida for just a few days before the baby showed up. I was not with her. She was with her parents who don't live there. They were traveling, too. So I got a surprising phone call. The the entire labor process was like 90 minutes. So it was really fast. I wasn't there for it. I thought, you know, I'll get on a plane, I'll be there. Labor can take hours like, you know, 24 hours. I'll be there. Fine. I was there like six or 7 hours later. But he had he'd been born way before that. He had it here he is, four months old now and we just had a doctor's appointment the last week and he is gaining weight rapidly. But because he's so early, he's like the size of a two month old because he was six weeks early. So he so even though he's four months old, he kind of looks like a two month old, which is kind of cool because it means he's really small and cuddly. And it's it's it's wonderful. I've been I've wanted to I've looked forward to the day of having my own kids, having a son for a long, long time. And so I'm I'm pumped. We haven't done a lot of work yet with him. On budgeting and money and financial planning already feeling. Yeah, I know, but. But there's hope. Yeah. Yeah, but extra couple of months. I have some time. Here's the scary thing though. Somebody told me right before he was born, they said by the time he turns 12 75% of your time with him will have already gone. I heard that recently. I heard that recently. And now that my daughters are 218, I believe that that yeah. And on top of that, I was divorced. So it's like I have even less time. even less had 15 summers. Yeah. I wrote about this. I had, I calculate 15 summers after my divorce. No shootings. Yeah, 15. Some shot to divorce. And now I hardly talk to kids. You're all grown and gone. So, like, every minute you can that you can squeeze is like. That's why it's more urgent. I heard a quote and said, and this is I tried. I quit my job to be home with them. So I quit my job and started this marketing thing. Yeah. And took this big, bold risk. I can be home with them. And I didn't have all this information. I just knew that I they are now my reason. They are the reason that I will work there. I mean, otherwise I could just have a little bitty job and make it. But I needed to make more for you. It might be a boring activity. A mundane activity for them is their childhood, the mundane. Everything's just like, Ooh, ah, ooh. Yeah. I mean, I'm only four months into this, but I am still trying to be very excited and can't even talk and write. But I'm still trying to be super excited about the things that make him excited because the biggest thing in his world for you is it? Well, it's true, I am told, but I wish whatever I want to be excited about the biggest thing in his world, whatever it is that's mundane and routine to me, right? Like, I just want to be excited about those things and engaged with them. And I'm looking forward to that. I am looking forward to hopefully teaching him about money so that he can avoid some of the challenges that so many people face. But most of that's theory, right? I have it successfully train a kid around money, but I know that there's some things that you can do that are really helpful around money. And one of them just just literally talk about money like you would anything your family and help your family know. Like so if you're at the checkout counter and you know your kids saying, hey, can I have one of these things? It's like, you know, I want one of the Butterfinger bars is right there on display that's conveniently within reach. So out of the stores put it there because they they get the kids to work for you. Yes. So many times parents will say, no, you can't that and then they'll make up a reason like you're dinner is soon. That's fine. But if the real reason is we can't afford that right now, tell them that because it's really good for kids to learn. I mean, this is theory, right? But I believe it's really good for kids to see modeled from their parents deferred gratification. We can't have that right now. Maybe we can in the future. And then once they're old enough, let them start saving for it on their own. Help them see that, Hey, if you wait in safe, you can buy the things that you want and then help them start to learn about investment. Some of the most rewarding work that I do with some of my clients is it's multigenerational. My client has invited their children in who have become clients, who have invited their children in, who have become clients. And so I'm working with three or four generations in the same family, and it's going to be the same money when great grandma passes away, that money goes and it's going to continue to move, right? And I'm going to continue to steward and watch over that same money for them through three or four generations. And that's one of the things that I love doing the most, is that kind of thing I can say it is possible. I started early with the girls. I would have started earlier, but I started earliest. I'm about cash flow for kids. If we start talking about money, I handed the money, I would hand them in like and actually give it to them so they can manage it, so they can understand that this money, this dollar, this $5, once is gone, there is no more. So you have to start making decisions and start training them on the idea of decision making and sacrificing like instead of I think for me, one of the biggest lessons was and this is actually a topic for one of my biggest moments where I had like the click for both of them. one Christmas we're broke. But I had saved over like $100 and I gave them each $50. We went to the bank because I saved a dollar, you know, they put a dollar into the savings. So in the year I had a $100. Yeah. And I told them that I wasn't going to buy them any gifts. It was kind of like, no joke, you're not getting any gifts. But when you come over the day after Christmas, we're going to go to the bank, do physical activity. It's an experience. We're going to withdraw $100.50 for you and 50 for you. And you can buy whatever you want. We went to Target so excited. They were so excited and fair. The older one. How old were they this time? They must have been seven and five. Okay. All right. Okay. That's a good age answer. Yeah. Okay. And fair throws in this big bear and throws in this thing. And then honest on the big things, like just chunking stuff because you can buy anything, anything. But once it's gone, it's gone. So when they start learning, getting the math of it right, they did this cost five, this course ten, this course, 30 where to go? Sure. The older one comes to me. Just Dad, can we go to the art section? I said, Yes, you can go to the art section. Go and we'll get there. she started looking around. She's like, I can get brushes and I can get markers and I can get them. And she got like nine things. There's a whole lot of things. And I could still had to have$33 left. Can we do it? Can I put the stuff back? Absolutely. Then. And I was like, Me too. Because you just going to her sister does. And but they walk out, they they bring it up and they walk out with more stuff because for them, more stuff. Her item Yeah. One teddy bear versus Yeah it was like I remember like a bigger Yeah. A 30 pack of markers is 30 murder anymore. So in that moment they understood not only did I get stuff I want because we do a lot of art as a family paper brushes, we go like the walk, probably a dozen things each. And I still had 20 or $30 left. And in that moment is when I think they got it like, I have to make decisions. Yes, Not because I think one of the my observations is if you don't do something like that, it doesn't have to be exactly like that. The child will just ask, ask, ask. And if the parent will be like, okay, fine, fine, fine, fine, fine. But then the child doesn't know that there is there's an end to it. Or at some point I have to say no to you or like we are broke. Right? And the way I saw this is at a Christmas party. A child was furious when the gifts ended. And it's like, no, you already got like 20 things we can't keep. But they don't understand the concept that, yes, some point there is an end is important. And the other thing, the economic term for that with the shopping that you just described is a beautiful analogy of opportunity cost. Yes. Which is I can do A or B, but I can't do both at the same time, which means sometimes if I choose A, I can never do B, correct. Because it's only like they're only limited right now. Right. We used to as a kid, this is real. I learned this lesson real quick with television. It doesn't work this way anymore. Now, television, in fact. I know where you're going with this. I'm concerned about actually, we're not naturally learning the language. The lesson of opportunity cost. Yeah, but as a kid, right? If you want to watch cartoons, there's cartoons on Channel eight is cartoons on Channel 11, but they're on live right now. And if you want to watch this one, you can't watch that one. And it will never air. And it's done. That's it, right? It's a one time. And so you have to say, do I watch Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles or do I watch Power Rangers? Because it's after that, it's done, it's gone. And you can never see it again. So we had a one at an early age opportunity cost. But now because everything's streaming, you can watch any episode whenever you want to. And in other areas we started to get rid of that opportunity cost. And I'm concerned about that because money hasn't gotten rid of opportunity cost. You can only spend a dollar one time on one thing, right? One of the lessons I help teach clients is that you can't double count money. So if you're just counting like, Hey, I'm building general wealth now, I've got $1,000,000 saved up, okay, But that million dollars can only be spent one time. So if if that's $1,000,000 for your retirement, good. But you can't also say it's also $1,000,000 for my kids college and it's $1,000,000 for the vacation home, because you can't you can pick which of those three and you can maybe spread it between them, but you can't use it the same million, all of them, obviously. Right. That is an important lesson to learn. The opportunity cost. And the other important one to learn is the opportunity cost of not saving. As soon as you can start saving and investing cause money that isn't invested, doesn't have a future. So the sooner you start investing it, the better, because you can never go back in time. That's the opportunity that we we have to figure out how to stream them. You can't go back in time and do it again, right? So if you son, if you choose to spend that money on lunch out today, you can't save it as well. Right. And so if you start thinking about how much that adds up, specifically with the power of compounding interest, it gets extremely expensive to do some things. Right now, lunch maybe cost you 30 bucks to go out and eat lunch, but that same 30 bucks, had it been invested by the time you're 80 is a whole bunch of money. And so it's like when you're 80, would you really want to spend$3,000 on a lunch? No. Well, that might be what that money's going to be worth. It's just an interesting way to think about it. That's beautiful. It's beautiful. I like to think that I did a good job with them both. Both of them have good credit scores, by the way. Both of them understand money. I would give them money, give them allowance. I give them a spreadsheet. Yes. And then they have to. I was their bank. Yeah. And then we put it in and then they tell me like, hey, I need money. I want to buy X, Y, Z. But then they track it like a little, like documentation just to make sure everything's copasetic and trust them and whatnot. But I try to do numerous things, just ingrain the idea of keeping up with your money. Don't be afraid of looking at your bank accounts and understanding credit. How does that work? Why is it important? It's essentially you're I feel like your money report card. Yeah. The report card on how you on how you manage money and whether people will give you money in the future. Yeah. It's a measure of how trustworthy you are. It's it's a it's a report card on your trustworthiness. Yeah. So they both understand it. And luckily, I also did some, some some little tricks that I saw online. And like Faye, her first credit score was like 780, I think, and as a 790. And how they help you get a better credit score than me because credit so the way credit works, right, is it doesn't start high. And then if you mess up, it gets goes down, it starts low because it's a measure of trustworthiness. And so they say, hey, we don't know who you are. We don't trust you at all. You have to build it up. And so building it up is hard and there's some ways you can help increase it and do that. But it's it's a it's a building process, not a well, if I've never made any mistakes, it doesn't go down. no, no. You're an unknown If you don't have and your trustworthiness is like, we don't know. You know, you and I know history. Yes, right. And so I've actually a good portion of the clients that I work with are post-divorce. And what has often been the case I don't know why this happens, but what is awesome in the case specifically in an older generation is one of the spouses. Typically the wife in a relationship. Has everything just been in her husband's name? He just handed all the finances and now they've gotten divorced. And so she's in her fifties and has no credit history of any kind. And maybe he's losing the house because of the divorce or a car and he's to buy one and can't because they go, We don't know who you are. Right. And well, I'm 50 years old. I've been doing finances forever. Like, well, we don't know. It's always been in it's always was in your ex his name. And so that's a surprisingly common. It's becoming less common. But as a thing, I'm glad they both have credit. They both I actually put them all as users. Yeah. On my cards. So when they aged up, they both now inherited a history. He inherited a history. And my father was able to get her own car by her name without without a deposit even. And without me involved. Yes. Like she can get an apartment. She can like that was my goal because I, like you need to be able to manage that by yourself. I don't need to be hanging around. Yes. But it involves a lot of forethought and realizing, like, where would I where did struggle and where could I have used some assistance? Obviously, knowing, understanding, credit, I didn't know that I knew credit, but I didn't know. No. My mom tried to warn me like that. And then I went and I lost my job. I had to quit, actually, because I needed I need to leave. And in doing so, my income went from just say, 100000 to 50. But I was spending at 120. So it's a it is unfortunate. Any final thoughts, Mike, that you'd like to share with the people? Where can they find you? Where if they wanted a contact. Sure, Yeah. Yep. I run a financial planning practice. Every every advisor has a firm that they either have created or they run through. I run through Ameriprise Financial. It's one of the largest, I think it is the largest financial planning firm, or at least one of the one of the top largest ones. Been around for a long time. So I run a practice there so you can find me on the Ameriprise Financial Advisor Search website. You can reach me via email and such. I guess you can put that up in the show notes if you want. Yep, I'm happy to. I love talking about finances with people and the ways that they can engage with it. I love mentoring people through it. I think involved in the community. I think the big lesson is it is never too late to make a good financial decision about your future. So even if you've made past mistakes, you can still make the future somewhat better by making a good decision now, right, is there's never a point where it's like, Well, it's too late. I've made so many mistakes, I can't make the future better. You can always make it better because you can choose to control how much you delay gratification, how much you send on to the future. Thank you so much. I really enjoyed the conversation. I really appreciate it. I'll make sure to leave all his information in the show notes if you're interested to get in contact with them. My my advice, my parental advice as a man, as a father, as a human is take care of your finances. Don't bury your head in the in the sand and pretend like just this snake that you can't get better or it gets better if you don't look at it and start start small. Get a book. The Psychology of Money. Psychology of Money. It really help start wrapping your head around the psychology of money, because it is the psychology, it is the the the mindsets and the beliefs that we have around it. And we can do better. And I think the biggest one for me is delayed gratification. There's a lot of things that we don't need. Despite the marketing. I'm a marketer. I get I understand what they're doing. Yeah, you're the one who tells everybody they need everything right away. Now. Now I help attorneys go get go get help, you know, legal help. But the marketers just shove stuff down our face that we need this new thing, that thing, that thing. And we will believe it at some point and want everything. But it is delaying gratification. And a lot of times it's like not even getting gratification around things that we really do not need. So that's not that's me on my high horse, but that's one of my biggest lessons are things that we shouldn't be buying. Anyways. My name is TV. Thank you for tuning into the TV show podcast. I really appreciate you. Make sure like subscribe, leave a review, please, and until next time, have a great day, Tata.